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Shooting the messenger in the Donbass – євромайдан

December 28, 2013

Much of what has been written in this blog over the past few weeks has been євромайдан-centric.  It has been generally supportive and also occasionally critical – as I am a democracy advocate.

Anything peaceful and law abiding that promotes or strives for democracy and all its supporting pillars I would find very difficult not to support.

However, it would be easy to think that the entire country supports the євромайдан cause given the majority western media coverage.  In the interests of fairness, it is necessary to be mindful that it is most certainly not so.

The above YouTube clip – with English subtitles – clearly makes that case.

Or does it?

Marching through Donetsk with the EU flag is probably not the best way to engage many there in open minded dialogue.  The response would be similar to marching through Lviv with the Customs Union flag and expecting an open minded dialogue.

It is not as though people in Donetsk – at least those I know – do not want a more robust and responsive  democracy.  They do.  They want rule of law, a free media, their basic freedoms of speech and assembly and all the other pillars of a democratic society.

The problem for them is not necessarily the message – but the messenger (and the messenger’s paraphernalia).

Not exactly an intractable problem to find or create a different and more acceptable messenger (with or without different and more acceptable paraphernalia) carrying the same core message that would gather public support in the East.

8 comments

  1. From December 29 2013

    A EuroMaidan march in Donetsk

    There are indeed people in Donbass who no longer want a brutally repressive sovok mafia company town regime

    video link and photos here:

    http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2013/12/29/7008825/

    But then there are the zombified brainwashed fanatics, who can’t live without a statue of Lenin

    Comment under the article says it all:

    Nik Tompson _ 29.12.2013 20:02
    Мужні люди .А реакція зомбованих не дивує,бо більшість зних крім ближніх територій нігде не були , щоб порівняти Росію І Європу.А варто поїхати ,тоді зрозуміють необгрунтований фанатизм.

    Translation:

    Brave people. And the reaction of the zombified is no surprise, for a majority of them have never been anywhere except in immediately surrounding territories, so they can’t compare Russia with Europe. It would be well worth it for them to travel to Europe, then they would understand their unwarranted fanaticism.


    • Thanks for the translation – though I don’t need it. Whatever Mr Tompson writes does not reflect what I have personally experienced in numerous visits to Donetsk though. I stick 100% with what I wrote in the blog, as supported by your ambassador to Ukraine, and my previous comments to you. I have not met “psychotic zombified” as you portray them in Donetsk.


      • They are there on the videos

        And they constitute the so-called “government” of Ukraine, plus those in the shadows – Medvedchuk, Chechetov, zAraza, yanusvoloch, Vadim Kolesnichenko, Olena the Clucking Hen Bondarenko, Ganna Goebbels German, Rybak – the list goes on.


      • I don’t see “psycho zombies” – I see people I would disagree with.


  2. sorry, but what I see is a bunch of sovok mafia brainwashed braindead brainless soulless idiots living in a 2-dimensional sovok world, who have no idea that there is 3rd dimension

    I see a sovok mafia company town

    “we have our jobs – what else do we need”

    “they toppled the statue of Lenin – how can we live now????”

    those are 2 direct quotes, and they are significant

    then you see the idiot thugs who, from their cars and from the sidewalk, hurl epithets at the protesters, as if the entire world or universe is falling apart

    the comfortable, stagnant, repressive, oppressive universe of sovok mafia-dom

    then there is the neanderthal looking thug who lunges at a female protester, and is restrained by the militia

    the woman shoveling the street is straight out of the sovok union, where you would see bent over old ladies sweeping the streets and sidewalks with small brooms

    so the workers’ paradise would look clean

    these people are psycho – they are still full of sovok slogans – they don’t know how to think

    they are deathly afraid of freedom – and democracy


    • Fortunately, the Ambassadors of the USA and UK both see things more in line with me than you:

      “Geoffrey Pyatt @GeoffPyatt 44m

      @OdessaBlogger Thoughtful post that challenges t/think beyond recently fashionable scare tactics and focus on how Europe will benefit all UA”

      Perhaps just as well they do what they do – and you do what you do eh?


      • They are ambassadors – they are not quite at full liberty to say what they really think in public

        Lutsenko was one of the people in Ukraine who properly characterized the sovok brainwashed zombies in Ukraine

        who in the hell says “they toppled the Lenin statue – how can we live now”, if they are in their right mind?

        This is simply the company town system, and the oligarchs have constantly threatened people with loss of their jobs for one reason or another, while living high off the hog in their sovok mafia system

        And – in Ukraine, where fear is instilled by sovok mafia, any public declaration against the mafia is met with – beatings, or other retribution, especially in silly Donbas

        I will never forget the woman on the Savik Shuster show who was asked by yanusvoloch to name names regarding intimidation.

        She replied: “how can I continue to live in Bila Tserkva after I name names?”

        The audience clapped, showing their understanding of the way they sovok mafia works in Ukraine

        You can make all the excuses you want for silly Donbas – it is a psychotic zombified hell hole made so by yanusvoloch and Akhmetov and their ilk

        “how can we live after they toppled the statue of Lenin?”


      • That they are ambassadors does not change what they can and do say to me privately though – regardless of what the say in public. And privately we do indeed speak. I know both men personally as well as quite a few others if I am honest. That said, what is said privately naturally must remain that way.

        As for Lutsenko, well I am not particularly a fan of his rhetoric or many of his actions historically and planned actions for the future either. He is though, albeit substantially diminished, somebody who still requires interaction with.

        Having been to Donetsk numerous times, I have to say your description “psychotic zombified” doesn’t meet that the people I met there. You were last there when?



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