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	<title>Comments for Odessablog&#039;s Blog</title>
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		<title>Comment on Asylum, Schengen and proportional representation by elmer</title>
		<link>http://odessablog.wordpress.com/2013/05/18/asylum-schegen-and-proportional-representation/#comment-3160</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[elmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 02:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://odessablog.wordpress.com/?p=10209#comment-3160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not just that the party lists are corrupt.

It&#039;s the party list system that is totally corrupt.

I would hope that change in the system would not have to wait until the Kuchma generation is gotten rid of permanently, and that is would come sooner rather than later.

But, unfortunately, you may be right - except that if the Bolshevik Regionnaires and Vadim Kolesnichenko and Olena the Clucking Hen Bondarenko and Victor Medvedchuk get their way, we may once gain be looking at some sort of reincarnation of the nightmare that was the sovok union.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not just that the party lists are corrupt.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the party list system that is totally corrupt.</p>
<p>I would hope that change in the system would not have to wait until the Kuchma generation is gotten rid of permanently, and that is would come sooner rather than later.</p>
<p>But, unfortunately, you may be right &#8211; except that if the Bolshevik Regionnaires and Vadim Kolesnichenko and Olena the Clucking Hen Bondarenko and Victor Medvedchuk get their way, we may once gain be looking at some sort of reincarnation of the nightmare that was the sovok union.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Asylum, Schengen and proportional representation by Odessablogger</title>
		<link>http://odessablog.wordpress.com/2013/05/18/asylum-schegen-and-proportional-representation/#comment-3159</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Odessablogger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 15:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://odessablog.wordpress.com/?p=10209#comment-3159</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am not picking on Shkil.  He was in the news and his 87th position on the Batkivshchnya list was a good reason to examine the Ukrainian electoral system and the reasons why he was so low.

I put forward the only two options as to why he would be so low on the party list.  That party list happened to be the Batkivshchnya list as that was the party he was in.  

The answer that all party lists of the major parties in Ukraine are corrupt to the core was the conclusion I suspect most readers came to - but one I left for them to ponder rather than for me to assert on their behalf - thus illustrating that the Batkivshchyna list is as corrupt as the Party Regions list, Communist List etc.  Even the UDAR list, whilst that may not have been corrupt this time, is full of known corrupt politicians whose allegiance has been with other parties previously  - some people I know personally amongst them.

As for majoritarian (first past the post) verses proportional representation (either dependent or independent) there are issues with both.

It can be successfully argued that the 100% majoritarian method as used in the UK is not representational of the electorate due to shenanigans with constituency borders etc just as it can be argued that the 100% proportional representation system employed by The Netherlands may be the most inclusive but also leads all to often to gridlock due to so many relevant political parties in parliament preventing the smooth functioning of the parliament.

Such is the paradox of 100% PR systems.

The mixed system Ukraine now uses mirrors that of Germany - and the German system was set up to insure that there could be no return to the dominant party politics of Hitler via the ballot box. 

If Regions wanted to fix the vote in a &quot;recognised&quot; and above-board voting system, then the &quot;block party&quot; voting system would be the on they would force through - it works in several countries including Singapore.

Alternatively they could simply make the proportional representation voting districts and seats within a smaller constituency, thus forcing up the percentage needed to win a seat and make it almost impossible for UDAR and Svoboda to have the same proportional representation they get from a single national constituency.

The math would dictate that making the constituencies smaller (rather than a single national constituency), UDAR and Svoboda would suffer whilst Regions and Batkivshchnya would gain.

However the current system is what the current system is - and we unfortunately have to note that the current electoral laws were supported by a fair amount of Batkivshchyna MPs including notable ones such as Turchynov when it passed into law.  

It was undoubtedly supported by Batkivshchyna because of the 5% threshold which forced smaller oppositions to join Batkivshchyna or die a political death by not reaching that electoral threshold.

Thus the electoral system now complained about was supported by Batkivshchyna for self-serving cynical reasons - which makes having any sympathy rather difficult - particularly so when we consider that when in power it did nothing whatsoever to expand and consolidate the independence of the state institutions required to enforce a level playing field.

Anyway, until the Kuchma generation that includes Yanukovych, Tymoshenko are all retired from public life permanently, there is little hope for any real change in the system regardless of who is in power.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not picking on Shkil.  He was in the news and his 87th position on the Batkivshchnya list was a good reason to examine the Ukrainian electoral system and the reasons why he was so low.</p>
<p>I put forward the only two options as to why he would be so low on the party list.  That party list happened to be the Batkivshchnya list as that was the party he was in.  </p>
<p>The answer that all party lists of the major parties in Ukraine are corrupt to the core was the conclusion I suspect most readers came to &#8211; but one I left for them to ponder rather than for me to assert on their behalf &#8211; thus illustrating that the Batkivshchyna list is as corrupt as the Party Regions list, Communist List etc.  Even the UDAR list, whilst that may not have been corrupt this time, is full of known corrupt politicians whose allegiance has been with other parties previously  &#8211; some people I know personally amongst them.</p>
<p>As for majoritarian (first past the post) verses proportional representation (either dependent or independent) there are issues with both.</p>
<p>It can be successfully argued that the 100% majoritarian method as used in the UK is not representational of the electorate due to shenanigans with constituency borders etc just as it can be argued that the 100% proportional representation system employed by The Netherlands may be the most inclusive but also leads all to often to gridlock due to so many relevant political parties in parliament preventing the smooth functioning of the parliament.</p>
<p>Such is the paradox of 100% PR systems.</p>
<p>The mixed system Ukraine now uses mirrors that of Germany &#8211; and the German system was set up to insure that there could be no return to the dominant party politics of Hitler via the ballot box. </p>
<p>If Regions wanted to fix the vote in a &#8220;recognised&#8221; and above-board voting system, then the &#8220;block party&#8221; voting system would be the on they would force through &#8211; it works in several countries including Singapore.</p>
<p>Alternatively they could simply make the proportional representation voting districts and seats within a smaller constituency, thus forcing up the percentage needed to win a seat and make it almost impossible for UDAR and Svoboda to have the same proportional representation they get from a single national constituency.</p>
<p>The math would dictate that making the constituencies smaller (rather than a single national constituency), UDAR and Svoboda would suffer whilst Regions and Batkivshchnya would gain.</p>
<p>However the current system is what the current system is &#8211; and we unfortunately have to note that the current electoral laws were supported by a fair amount of Batkivshchyna MPs including notable ones such as Turchynov when it passed into law.  </p>
<p>It was undoubtedly supported by Batkivshchyna because of the 5% threshold which forced smaller oppositions to join Batkivshchyna or die a political death by not reaching that electoral threshold.</p>
<p>Thus the electoral system now complained about was supported by Batkivshchyna for self-serving cynical reasons &#8211; which makes having any sympathy rather difficult &#8211; particularly so when we consider that when in power it did nothing whatsoever to expand and consolidate the independence of the state institutions required to enforce a level playing field.</p>
<p>Anyway, until the Kuchma generation that includes Yanukovych, Tymoshenko are all retired from public life permanently, there is little hope for any real change in the system regardless of who is in power.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The symbolic signing of nothing special by elmer</title>
		<link>http://odessablog.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/the-symbolic-signing-of-nothing-special/#comment-3158</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[elmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 15:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://odessablog.wordpress.com/?p=10215#comment-3158</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[4,000 is better than nothing.

And the Bolshevik Regionnaires were so concerned about it that they staged their own (paid) &quot;anti-fascist&quot; rally, and even beat up a Channel 5 female reporter and male cameraman.

The Bolshevik Regionnaires have intensively stepped up their sovok era &quot;anti-fascist&quot; propaganda against the opposition.  They are still counting on all the brainwashing that took place during the sovok era.

Olena the Clucking Hen Bondarenko called the opposition rally &quot;immoral.&quot;

As far as supporting the candidate who makes it to the second round - the idea is to support a tested candidate, a candidate who has proved himself or herself, although Yatseniuk stated publicly that the candidate for president is Tymoshenko.

The opposition has operated on a united front basis, and yanusvoloch is tanking.

I think the people will see that yanusvoloch is the worst choice they could have made, based on what has transpired thus far, and that he should be voted out of office.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4,000 is better than nothing.</p>
<p>And the Bolshevik Regionnaires were so concerned about it that they staged their own (paid) &#8220;anti-fascist&#8221; rally, and even beat up a Channel 5 female reporter and male cameraman.</p>
<p>The Bolshevik Regionnaires have intensively stepped up their sovok era &#8220;anti-fascist&#8221; propaganda against the opposition.  They are still counting on all the brainwashing that took place during the sovok era.</p>
<p>Olena the Clucking Hen Bondarenko called the opposition rally &#8220;immoral.&#8221;</p>
<p>As far as supporting the candidate who makes it to the second round &#8211; the idea is to support a tested candidate, a candidate who has proved himself or herself, although Yatseniuk stated publicly that the candidate for president is Tymoshenko.</p>
<p>The opposition has operated on a united front basis, and yanusvoloch is tanking.</p>
<p>I think the people will see that yanusvoloch is the worst choice they could have made, based on what has transpired thus far, and that he should be voted out of office.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Asylum, Schengen and proportional representation by elmer</title>
		<link>http://odessablog.wordpress.com/2013/05/18/asylum-schegen-and-proportional-representation/#comment-3157</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[elmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 15:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://odessablog.wordpress.com/?p=10209#comment-3157</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Look, again, I take your point about seats being bought and sold in the zRada.

The party list system is rotten to the core, as you note.

Shkil may have been useless to Batkvshchyna - but he is highly intelligent and highly articulate.

In Zookraine, the Bolshevik Regionnaires are terrifed both of a majoritarian system and a party list system precisely because of what happened in the last elections - they were soundly defeated to the point where they could no longer muster their usual sovok mafia majority by themselves.

There was also fear of the single candidate majoritarian system, as happens in civilized countries, in Zookraine based on allegations that &quot;the seats would be bought.&quot;

Poroshenko got into the zRada based on a single-candidate majority system.  So did others.

But in other districts, the votes were literally stolen, and &quot;courts&quot; upheld the theft.

And re-votes that were supposed to take place still have not occurred.

I&#039;m not sure why you&#039;re picking on Shkil.

The whole voting system and court system in Zookraine is a sick, sick, disgusting toilet/sewer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, again, I take your point about seats being bought and sold in the zRada.</p>
<p>The party list system is rotten to the core, as you note.</p>
<p>Shkil may have been useless to Batkvshchyna &#8211; but he is highly intelligent and highly articulate.</p>
<p>In Zookraine, the Bolshevik Regionnaires are terrifed both of a majoritarian system and a party list system precisely because of what happened in the last elections &#8211; they were soundly defeated to the point where they could no longer muster their usual sovok mafia majority by themselves.</p>
<p>There was also fear of the single candidate majoritarian system, as happens in civilized countries, in Zookraine based on allegations that &#8220;the seats would be bought.&#8221;</p>
<p>Poroshenko got into the zRada based on a single-candidate majority system.  So did others.</p>
<p>But in other districts, the votes were literally stolen, and &#8220;courts&#8221; upheld the theft.</p>
<p>And re-votes that were supposed to take place still have not occurred.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure why you&#8217;re picking on Shkil.</p>
<p>The whole voting system and court system in Zookraine is a sick, sick, disgusting toilet/sewer.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Asylum, Schengen and proportional representation by Odessablogger</title>
		<link>http://odessablog.wordpress.com/2013/05/18/asylum-schegen-and-proportional-representation/#comment-3155</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Odessablogger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 15:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://odessablog.wordpress.com/?p=10209#comment-3155</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do not wonder at all over the PoR party list any more than I do any other party list.  Party lists always, in any nation, insure the leaders and favourites are positioned high enough to guarantee their continued political lives, often regardless of actual ability.

However I do not think I am way off base over Mr Shkil as you state, for I am not the person who responsible for drawing up the Batkivshchnya Party list.  Therefore it is they - and not I - who positioned him so low on their list that he would never get reelected - thus he was either useless to them as a politician, or unwilling/unable to pay enough to be placed higher - the latter scenario being a damning indictment to the internal democratic workings of Batkivshchnya.

As the positioning on the Batkivshchnya party list is purely a matter for the Batkivshchyna leadership, his lowly position on their list is due to one or the other reasons mentioned above.  He is either useless or the Batkivshchnya party is corrupt to its core.  Which is it?  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not wonder at all over the PoR party list any more than I do any other party list.  Party lists always, in any nation, insure the leaders and favourites are positioned high enough to guarantee their continued political lives, often regardless of actual ability.</p>
<p>However I do not think I am way off base over Mr Shkil as you state, for I am not the person who responsible for drawing up the Batkivshchnya Party list.  Therefore it is they &#8211; and not I &#8211; who positioned him so low on their list that he would never get reelected &#8211; thus he was either useless to them as a politician, or unwilling/unable to pay enough to be placed higher &#8211; the latter scenario being a damning indictment to the internal democratic workings of Batkivshchnya.</p>
<p>As the positioning on the Batkivshchnya party list is purely a matter for the Batkivshchyna leadership, his lowly position on their list is due to one or the other reasons mentioned above.  He is either useless or the Batkivshchnya party is corrupt to its core.  Which is it?  </p>
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		<title>Comment on Asylum, Schengen and proportional representation by elmer</title>
		<link>http://odessablog.wordpress.com/2013/05/18/asylum-schegen-and-proportional-representation/#comment-3154</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[elmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 14:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://odessablog.wordpress.com/?p=10209#comment-3154</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: poor performers and highly placed party leaders

One wonders how it is that lardbutt brainless convict the &quot;president&quot; yanusovloch&#039;s son, a worthless turd, is in the Parliament on the Boshevik Regionnaires ticket.

If you&#039;ve ever seen him in interviews, the little shyte has absolutely no clue about where he is or why he is there.


And again - Pshonka, the fat bag-of-dough white haired Prosecutor General of Zookraine, also stuck his son in the Rada - again on the Boshevik Regionnaire ticket.

Oh, and let&#039;s not forget Ms. Lyovochkin, who has family connections to her brother, again on the Bolshevik Regionnaire ticket.

If you are referring to &quot;poor performance&quot; by Mr. Shkil in the Rada, the sewer that passes for a parliament in Zookraine, which has been controlled by the Bolshevik Regionnaires and the commies, you are way off base.

Although I do take your point about seats being bought in the zRada.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: poor performers and highly placed party leaders</p>
<p>One wonders how it is that lardbutt brainless convict the &#8220;president&#8221; yanusovloch&#8217;s son, a worthless turd, is in the Parliament on the Boshevik Regionnaires ticket.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;ve ever seen him in interviews, the little shyte has absolutely no clue about where he is or why he is there.</p>
<p>And again &#8211; Pshonka, the fat bag-of-dough white haired Prosecutor General of Zookraine, also stuck his son in the Rada &#8211; again on the Boshevik Regionnaire ticket.</p>
<p>Oh, and let&#8217;s not forget Ms. Lyovochkin, who has family connections to her brother, again on the Bolshevik Regionnaire ticket.</p>
<p>If you are referring to &#8220;poor performance&#8221; by Mr. Shkil in the Rada, the sewer that passes for a parliament in Zookraine, which has been controlled by the Bolshevik Regionnaires and the commies, you are way off base.</p>
<p>Although I do take your point about seats being bought in the zRada.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Democracy, tolerance and habit &#8211; The Ternopil Incident by elmer</title>
		<link>http://odessablog.wordpress.com/2013/05/12/democracy-tolerance-and-habit-the-ternopil-incident/#comment-3141</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[elmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 May 2013 13:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://odessablog.wordpress.com/?p=10185#comment-3141</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem is that Victory Day is not a dignified remembrance of war dead - it is a propaganda day, rooted firmly in the mistaken belief that there was &quot;victory over the fascists.&quot;

What a bunch of horseshit!  There they are, in Kyiv and elsewhere, soldiers of the Ukrainian army, in 2013, goosestepping !!!! like little fascist marionettes.

Old geezers, literally covered from head to toe in medals, for breathing, for walking, and whatever else the sovoks thought up, parading around in sovok union uniforms, as if they accomplished something.

What did they accomplish?  The Red Army defeated one set of fascists, so they could preserve their own fascism.

And psychotic jerks like Vadim Koleshnichenko and other Bolshevik Regionnaires who still bask in sovok union mentality, still use that propaganda.

The sovok union had nothing to justify its existence - it was always a failure. So every day, they used the only thing they could to justify their existence - &quot;victory over fascism.&quot;

There is nothing reverent or dignified in these idiotic Victory Day celebrations.

Especially the sickening sight of kids running up to old geezers with flowers - &quot;oh, granddaddy, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.&quot;

For what?  For preserving stalinist fascism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is that Victory Day is not a dignified remembrance of war dead &#8211; it is a propaganda day, rooted firmly in the mistaken belief that there was &#8220;victory over the fascists.&#8221;</p>
<p>What a bunch of horseshit!  There they are, in Kyiv and elsewhere, soldiers of the Ukrainian army, in 2013, goosestepping !!!! like little fascist marionettes.</p>
<p>Old geezers, literally covered from head to toe in medals, for breathing, for walking, and whatever else the sovoks thought up, parading around in sovok union uniforms, as if they accomplished something.</p>
<p>What did they accomplish?  The Red Army defeated one set of fascists, so they could preserve their own fascism.</p>
<p>And psychotic jerks like Vadim Koleshnichenko and other Bolshevik Regionnaires who still bask in sovok union mentality, still use that propaganda.</p>
<p>The sovok union had nothing to justify its existence &#8211; it was always a failure. So every day, they used the only thing they could to justify their existence &#8211; &#8220;victory over fascism.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is nothing reverent or dignified in these idiotic Victory Day celebrations.</p>
<p>Especially the sickening sight of kids running up to old geezers with flowers &#8211; &#8220;oh, granddaddy, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.&#8221;</p>
<p>For what?  For preserving stalinist fascism.</p>
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		<title>Comment on More Visa questions about Ukraine and the 90/180 days rule&#8230;..so some answers by smash</title>
		<link>http://odessablog.wordpress.com/2010/04/26/more-visa-questions-about-ukraine-and-the-90180-days-rule-so-some-answers/#comment-3118</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[smash]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://odessablog.wordpress.com/?p=3232#comment-3118</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, after various non-cooperative visits to the OVIR office I decieed to take my fiancee and child on holiday; given my 90 days stay in the Ukr was coming to an end.

On exit the immigratiin officer did query my duration in the Ukr, however commented that as Feb has less days then all is ok and I was within my 90day limit.

On return a few weeks later, the immigration officer didn&#039;t even query my return and stamped me in for another 90 days. 

However, I&#039;m unsure how often this would work, though it got me longrr with my child this time.

My query is this; I have recently submitted an application for an EEA Family permit for my finacee (&amp; child), part of the supporting documents is asking for the British Consulate Kiev to have valiated my passport, as this would take a long time (given we have an appointment next week and I can&#039;t be without my passport) is there another acceptable alternative i.e if I get my passport notarised or validated via a lawyer in the city I am in.

Not sure what to do for the best, I&#039;m hoping for an answer before Monday (as will phone the UKBA/Consular); I&#039;m asking now as it&#039;s playing on my mind now.

Regards]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, after various non-cooperative visits to the OVIR office I decieed to take my fiancee and child on holiday; given my 90 days stay in the Ukr was coming to an end.</p>
<p>On exit the immigratiin officer did query my duration in the Ukr, however commented that as Feb has less days then all is ok and I was within my 90day limit.</p>
<p>On return a few weeks later, the immigration officer didn&#8217;t even query my return and stamped me in for another 90 days. </p>
<p>However, I&#8217;m unsure how often this would work, though it got me longrr with my child this time.</p>
<p>My query is this; I have recently submitted an application for an EEA Family permit for my finacee (&amp; child), part of the supporting documents is asking for the British Consulate Kiev to have valiated my passport, as this would take a long time (given we have an appointment next week and I can&#8217;t be without my passport) is there another acceptable alternative i.e if I get my passport notarised or validated via a lawyer in the city I am in.</p>
<p>Not sure what to do for the best, I&#8217;m hoping for an answer before Monday (as will phone the UKBA/Consular); I&#8217;m asking now as it&#8217;s playing on my mind now.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
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		<title>Comment on Human Rights &#8211; The US Magnitsky List by Odessablogger</title>
		<link>http://odessablog.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/human-rights-the-us-magnitsky-list/#comment-3089</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Odessablogger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Apr 2013 18:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://odessablog.wordpress.com/?p=10094#comment-3089</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is not the core of any policy decision after &quot;why are we doing this&quot; - &quot;what effect it will have?&quot;  

Looking at the list it seems nothing short of a token gesture with regards to human rights abusers in Russia and &quot;justice&quot; for Magnitsky.

It will in no way advance human rights in Russia.

Now there&#039;s a seed for an article for you for The New Statesman LOL

 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is not the core of any policy decision after &#8220;why are we doing this&#8221; &#8211; &#8220;what effect it will have?&#8221;  </p>
<p>Looking at the list it seems nothing short of a token gesture with regards to human rights abusers in Russia and &#8220;justice&#8221; for Magnitsky.</p>
<p>It will in no way advance human rights in Russia.</p>
<p>Now there&#8217;s a seed for an article for you for The New Statesman LOL</p>
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		<title>Comment on Human Rights &#8211; The US Magnitsky List by grahamwphillips</title>
		<link>http://odessablog.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/human-rights-the-us-magnitsky-list/#comment-3088</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[grahamwphillips]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Apr 2013 18:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://odessablog.wordpress.com/?p=10094#comment-3088</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good questions, good blog!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good questions, good blog!</p>
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	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
